What was your first job?
I worked at a shoe store in Enschede, when I was about 14 years old. That was the first time I applied for a job. I didn’t get a response at first, so my mother said: You have to call! I can still see myself standing there, shaking like a leaf in front of the rotary phone. But because of that call, they invited me, even though I wasn’t at the top of their list. You have to dare to take a step like that.

How would you explain your job in language that a child can understand?
My sons, ages 13 and 10, have a father who nags them about sorting rubbish. They know that I started a company where I try to solve problems related to raw materials and the environment. My job is a little harder to explain than other jobs, because Powered by Meaning is more than just one company. All the companies in our group, which now has about 350 employees, work on social issues. My sons understand what the circular economy is and that it takes inventors, entrepreneurs and new companies to tackle the problems that also impact their generation.

What is your big dream?
It’s a pretty big dream, but I believe that we need to redesign our entire economy. At the moment it seems like our society is all about serving the economy. We need to flip that around: the economy should serve society. We need to move away from short-term thinking and start creating value in more ways than just monetary. To put this into practice, we’ll need to found more and more companies based on these principles. It will also make work more fun and meaningful, which is why we named our group Powered by Meaning.

‘The reason why I embrace the circular economy so much is that it gives entrepreneurs an opportunity to take action’

You prefer to use the term ‘circular’ rather than ‘sustainable’. What’s the difference?
There’s something moralistic about sustainability. You never do it well enough. Hearing Greta Thunberg speak, no matter how important her message is, just makes me feel like you can never get ahead. People say, for example, take shorter showers—preferably with cold water… That might appeal to about ten percent of the population, but you’ll never get the other ninety percent on board.

Circular means: Let’s invent a shower with water heated by a solar boiler that purifies the water itself. Then you can shower as long as you want. There are already two different types of this available, but they’re still expensive. The reason why I embrace the circular economy so much is that it gives entrepreneurs an opportunity to take action. Entrepreneurs aren’t good at thinking in terms of less, or cutting back on the size of what they’ve built. We tend to be creative and in it for the long haul. That resonates with me.

What are you proud of?
On my contribution to putting the Netherlands on the map as a circular hotspot. When Circle Economy was founded in 2012, I was director for a while. To create a hotspot, you need a place where people work towards a higher goal and where there’s room to experiment. The Netherlands is kind of like Singapore but with a little extra land. It’s an urban delta. The problems we have here are also the problems of the future for the rest of the world.

At that time, a government accord was issued in which the concept of circular economy was mentioned once. We were granted a fifteen-minute meeting with the Dutch Prime Minister, which turned into a half-hour conversation. ‘This sounds like an export product for the Netherlands,’ Prime Minister Rutte said. Our country had been lagging behind on renewable energy and waste processing, but we were leading the pack with new business models. There are now circular hotspots all over the world, from Poland to Nigeria. I kicked a ball into motion that now keeps rolling by itself.

‘Over the past 27 years as an entrepreneur, I’ve experienced so much, from mistakes and disappointments to things that worked out just fine on their own’

What keeps you up at night?
Lately, I’ve been sleeping a little less easily because we’re taking exciting steps at Powered by Meaning. We’ve grown our businesses organically up to now. Now we’re going to invest in real estate and manufacturing companies. We won’t do this purely from our company’s profits, but in cooperation with outside investors. That brings a different kind of risk: You can no longer adjust by simply working harder or taking a loss.

What do those exciting steps look like specifically?
There’s a systemic flaw in the real estate market. Developers often sell buildings so quickly that there’s no reason to make circular choices. We’re working to convert old buildings in city centres into circular locations that we will continue to operate ourselves. It’s in our own interest to focus on quality from the outset, otherwise we’ll run into problems fifteen years down the road. Our Social Impact Factory in Utrecht has taught us how well this can work. We also ensure that our buildings are easily adaptable from the inside. Maybe in the near future, we’ll need hospitals instead of office space. Adaptable buildings are the monuments of tomorrow.

‘It started to wear me down to think that I was telling success stories of entrepreneurs who had taken risks and worked really hard and that I was the one getting the pats on the back afterwards’

Is there anything about yourself that you wish you could change?
I used to think that every problem could be fixed. If something doesn’t work out, try this or that, or work even harder. But I’ve found out that this isn’t true. Over the past 27 years as an entrepreneur, I’ve experienced so much, from mistakes and disappointments to things that worked out just fine on their own. I feel reassured when I put my contribution into perspective. I don’t have to change the whole world on my own or feel like I own every problem.

You used to make a lot of public appearances. What made you scale back on that?
In 2017, I made a conscious decision not to give so many talks. In the past, the circular economy story just needed to be told. But now there are many people who can do this better than me. It started to wear me down to think that I was telling success stories of entrepreneurs who had taken risks and worked really hard and that I was the one getting the pats on the back afterwards. I decided I’d rather do less talking and take more action instead.

What do you do to blow off steam?
Since my job is also my life mission, I often forget that I’m at work. I actually experience the creative process as a kind of game. Of course, I also feel the pressure. Some people see how much I do and wonder how I don’t feel overworked. Fortunately, there are always moments that put things into perspective. Until I was 40, I only wanted to do things I was really good at. So, I wouldn’t put much time into things like tennis and playing guitar, for example. I do those things now. Those are good ways to unwind, even if I know I’m never going to be the best.

If you could trade jobs with anyone for one day, who would it be?
Frans van Houten from Philips. He is working on turning his company around and making it more meaningful. What must it be like to be working at that level and dealing with all those stakeholders who will probably tell you that it can’t be done? That’s something I’d like to do not just for one day, but for a few years.

Photography: Pieter Bas Bouwman