Hans Geels: ‘The most sustainable thing we can do is close our store’

What would you like to pass on, or leave behind?
I am afraid there is a bit of a preacher in me. I would like us to leave the earth slightly more beautiful than we found it, and I find it deeply frustrating that we are failing to do so. I have been around for sixty years now, and every year it seems we are less capable of taking good care of it. Over the years, I have worked for many organisations that try to make a difference, such as the World Wide Fund for Nature. Today, I try to do the same from within Dille & Kamille, while also accepting the reality that people simply consume.

Our message is simple: consume more thoughtfully. Not on Black Friday. We are closed that day as well.

Still, that must create friction. Dille & Kamille also sells products people do not strictly need.
There is always friction. You have to be realistic about that. You will never hear us claim that we are a sustainable company. Sustainability and retail do not go together. At its core, sustainability means not buying. The most sustainable thing we could do is lock the shop, but that is not the game we are playing. We are a retail business. So, the best we can do is nudge people in a certain direction and offer products without microplastics, palm oil, or unnecessary chemicals.

What is the best piece of leadership advice you have ever received?
Only manage professionals when they are not delivering results. I learned that from management scholar Matthieu Weggeman, whom I once met at Twynstra Gudde. That advice really opened my eyes. Give professionals freedom. Let them practise their craft and make mistakes. Not only is that allowed, but it is also necessary. But if they do not learn from those mistakes and fail to deliver the results you agreed on together, that is when you need to step in as a leader. Before that, I acted much more from a need for control.

I never really learned how to lead. The first time I did it was at broadcaster NCRV. The person who had been doing it left, and suddenly, I was the only one left. I had studied marketing and thought I knew a great deal, but in reality, I had no idea. Everything I learned came through trial and error. Since then, I have repeatedly ended up in leadership roles without actively seeking them. Part of that went well, but I also made serious mistakes.

What was your biggest mistake?
In general, not naming what was really going on. Papering over cracks. For a long time, I struggled to be honest, clear, and direct. If someone is not suited to a role, you should not soften it or talk around it. You need to say it as it is. Not naming the issue is always worse than naming it. It starts to fester. For years, I wanted everyone to like me. I am slowly learning to accept that this is not always possible.

What is your toughest entrepreneurial dilemma?
Growing while keeping the culture intact. That balance is the real challenge. It applies to almost every company I have worked for, but certainly to Dille & Kamille. How do you grow big while staying small? The company is now five times larger than when I started. Not only financially, but especially in terms of people. That makes it increasingly difficult to keep things personal. I try to remain approachable, communicate openly, and keep organisational layers to a minimum. That sense of connection is one of our core values.

A church brings calm for me, and I value the stories from the Bible. The norms and values of our society are rooted in them. It is a real shame that many young people no longer know them.

What was your first job?
One summer, as a HEAO student, I was hired by Philips to help with one of their devices, Video 2000. The product was technically excellent. Engineers felt the logic was sound. But users found it impossibly difficult to connect. People genuinely wanted to throw the video player out of the window. It was that complicated. Why was that? The Philips manual consisted entirely of text. We made a proposal to use images. People were already struggling to read back then.

Did you learn something there that you still use today?
That you should always challenge your own assumptions. Those Philips engineers were completely convinced of their product. It was the best device on the market. But you still need to build a bridge between your product and the people using it. That was one of the very first marketing lessons I learned.

Do you apply those lessons at Dille & Kamille as well?
Every single day. We work on products that we hope customers will understand. Once, it clearly did not work. We sold a sauna hat; a straw object you wear to keep your head cool in the sauna. That is no longer part of our range.

What is the common thread in how others describe you?
I think people find me inspiring, and someone with an opinion. They notice that I give them a lot of freedom. And I am patient. I must be, because I did not grasp everything immediately myself. I was not a good student. Everything I learned came through practice, not at school. I never received an official diagnosis, but I recognise ADHD in its quieter form, now often referred to as ADD. I was always distracted.

That distraction made me very creative. It had to, if I wanted to finish school while not being very good at learning in the traditional sense. When I became director at CliniClowns, it was complete chaos. Everyone said, what on earth are you going to do there? I said, we are going to turn it into a major charity. And that is what happened. Because I was always told at school that I could not do anything, I developed a huge drive to prove myself.

What has your patience brought you?
Dille & Kamille is a family business. Without patience, and if everything has to be done your way, you might as well walk away. You have to be able to bring people together and unite them around a shared position. That does not happen automatically.

Who or what has shaped you most as a leader?
Desmond Tutu. This man achieved the impossible. He reconciled people who had been bitter enemies under Apartheid in South Africa. Tutu was connected to a foundation I was involved with for a long time, so I saw him in person several times. He was a truly magical man. His boundless faith, his boundless optimism, and his ability to remain open after everything he had experienced affected me deeply.

Text: Vera Spaans