Frank Huis, CEO of ventilation specialist Interduct: “People are capable of far more than they realise, and then some.”

What is your toughest entrepreneurial dilemma?
We are building a progressive organisation. One with a great deal of self-management and leadership, but very few traditional managers. The big challenge is how to preserve that without stepping back in and taking control again. I set this in motion, and then I want to give people the space to shape how they work. But people quickly revert to more traditional role divisions, because that is what they are used to, it is how most companies operate. Clients and suppliers often do not fully understand our structure either. So how do you hold on to that progressive way of working?

Because people voluntarily surrender their autonomy again.
People vastly underestimate themselves. They are capable of far more than they think, and then even more beyond that. Yet they convince themselves they do not have it in them.

So how do you convince them?
I cannot convince them. I can encourage them. I could say, you must do it this way or that way, but then people simply think, that is what he prefers. It works better to gently nudge them by sharing examples from others, ideally colleagues doing similar work who have already stepped into that space. That is what works best. What did you experience, how did you approach it? Then suddenly they believe they can do it too. That only works if you are regularly present on the shop floor yourself. I am one of the few director-shareholders who spends the entire day in safety boots. I always want to be able to step onto the shop floor. That is where value is created for our clients, that is where it truly happens, and there is a remarkable amount of leadership there.

Who or what has shaped you most as a leader?
Ricardo Semler. I read his book in the early nineties, and it completely changed my thinking. His philosophy resonated deeply with me. In the eighties, in Brazil, he took over his father’s company, which was organised in a very traditional way. It did not suit him, he burned out, and decided to radically transform the business to align with his beliefs. He introduced radical decision-making. People were able to decide their own working hours and how they carried out their work. Of course within goals agreed as a team. And it worked. The company grew from four million euros in revenue to more than two hundred million over twenty years. It was entirely different from what I had read in my business textbooks. It is also how I would want to be treated, with trust, room to develop, and room to make mistakes.

What is the fundamental difference between Interduct and comparable companies?
That is difficult to say, because I do not often get a look inside comparable organisations. But we operate on three principles: transparency, equality and trust. And I hear that we genuinely live by them.

Which trait of yours would you gladly part with?
I can become persistent to the point of irritation when my values are challenged. If someone betrays my trust, or questions my integrity, I react strongly. Sometimes too strongly. An angry look, a raised voice. It is entirely ineffective, because people simply shut down. I have had quite a bit of coaching and have learned to handle it better. I have far more control over my emotions now and can use them constructively. But that took years. I have learned to put my feelings into words, because ultimately that is what you must do as a leader.

When did you decide to work on this?
In 2008 I was able to buy into the company, and I began full of enthusiasm. Let’s go. At some point things did not progress as I had hoped. Come on, bring ideas, I thought, think for yourselves, how can it be that nothing is happening? I became irritated, slammed a door, and suddenly realised this feels like a pattern. This is not about them, this is about me. I then went to an institute in Veldhoven, now called Learning Waves, with several other entrepreneurs, and we worked intensively on ourselves.

Do you value rituals, and if so, which ones?
Rituals are the heartbeat of your company. Every day we hold a team stand-up to review what needs to be done. What has been achieved, who needs support? And how is everyone feeling? We always close with a plus-delta, what went well and what could be improved, because self-management requires constant reflection. It is not about letting everything go and saying, right, you sort it out. Structure and rhythm are incredibly important in a self-managing organisation.

Where and how do you get your best ideas?
By walking around and talking to people. The best ideas surface over a beer and some nibbles. Being on the shop floor regularly means people approach you easily and feel safe enough to tell you all sorts of things, even though I’m the CEO. I also spend two to three months away each year on my boat. I need that time to stay fresh and maintain perspective. What are we working on, are we heading in the right direction? During those months I have no operational responsibilities, which allows me to work on the business rather than in it.

Can you really be unreachable for that long?
That is precisely the point. One of the first times I left for that long, two fellow directors had just joined the company. Three months after they started, I went travelling. It gave them the space to truly establish themselves within Interduct. In the first weeks people still came mainly to me, because I had been the longest-serving leader. After that, they had to turn elsewhere. Before I left, I was still handling many operational tasks. When I returned, I was able to focus exclusively on the responsibilities that suited me and benefited the company most.

What is your big dream?
I dream of building a world in which people can simply work happily. Where they can use their talents, do what they are good at, work in an atmosphere of trust and continue to grow. I still see far too many people who are unhappy in their jobs but stay because they need to earn a living. In that way, an enormous amount of talent goes to waste.